In this week’s episode, we have again James Spurgeon on the show. This time, we talked about his unique style in processing and harvesting Kveik yeast.
Links:
James Spurgeon’s Instagram Account: https://www.instagram.com/lakeforkbrewing/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/brewingwithkveik/?ref=share
James Spurgeon’s blog site: www.lakeforkbrewing.com/blog
Website: http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/farmhouse/kveik.html
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Show Transcript
AI created it will have many errors.
Colter Wilson: On this week’s show. I have James Spurgeon on the show. We’re going to go over another show about But this time, we’re going to talk about a specific part about , which is. The harvesting and reusing of It’s a little bit different than when you use a normal yeast so we’re going to talk all about harvesting could bike on homebrewing diy
And welcome back to home brewing DIY the podcast that takes on a do it yourself, aspect of home, brewing gadgets, contraptions, and parts. This show covers it all on this week show, we’re talking to James Spurgeon. We’re going to talk to him about all of the ways that you can. Harvest and reuse. we also talk about brewing in general and some different types of beers that you can make with the and different resources for finding different types of bike.
It’s going to be a very fun show and already, I want to thank James for taking the time to be on the show this week. But first I’d like to thank all of our patrons over a Patrion it’s because of you that this show can come to you week after week,
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And just to talk a bit about what’s going on in the world of homebrewing DIY, a lot is going on. We’ve got a lot of different guests already lined up for the next few weeks. I’m very excited about having that all taken care of. And if you’re a Patrion or patron member, you would know that. I’ve been pretty good lately about getting my shows out early.
So for example, I’m recording this right now on a Tuesday. You’re going to get this episode a couple of days early, if you’re a patron and then it’s not that normal Thursday morning also, I’ve got a new assistant and I’m very excited, excited. Uh, for Marie, you might see her around when you, for example, if you’re a guest, she would be the person booking your show, and she’s been helping me with all of.
Kinds of things that have to do with homebrewing, DIY, I’m very, very excited. So if you run into Murray on my social media or anything like that day, say hi to her, she’s a really, really nice lady. Other than that, let’s jump into this week’s show. I’m excited because we’re going to talk to James Spurgeon about . I’d like to welcome James Spurgeon to the show.
He’s a, uh, a homebrewer out of Tyler, Texas. How are you doing James?
James Spurgoen: I’m doing good. How are you doing?
Colter Wilson: Well, Well, I brought dreams on the show. We’ve been talking back and forth for the last year about Kovacic strains, and I thought he would be a great guest for the show because he’s got this really cool process where he’s harvesting and drying it and reusing it. So we’re going to talk a bit about that process, but James, why don’t you give me a bit of history of how you started brewing?
James Spurgoen: , when I was 15, I bought my dad a home brew kit. And so he was really big in the craft beer. And of course I wasn’t drinking. Yeah. But about when I was about 21, we went to Fort Collins, Colorado and did the new Belgium brewing tour. And I got really intrigued with the process and beer. And so as soon as I turned 21, I got myself an extra kit and brewed it with my uncle and it was terrible.
It was. I’m pretty sure we had a few bottle bonds out of that too. Actually, now that I think about it and I did two or three more and then, um, ended up moving to brew in a bag Turkey fryer in, uh, on the back porch. And I’ve just, I’ve gone on down the rabbit hole since then. I’m I use an anvil Foundry now I’m indoors.
I’ve got three chest freezers, 12 kegs. And I’m just, I brew every 10 days now. It’s kind of an obsession at this point.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. You’re now mid twenties and a brew club and everything. Right.
James Spurgoen: Yes, sir. I am.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. Uh, what’s the, what’s the home brew scene like in Tyler, Texas.
James Spurgoen: Um, it’s not too bad. I drive, I actually drive to Longview. Most of the time, most of the people in the club are in Longview, Texas, which is I think, 30 minutes away or so I’m outside of Tyler. So I’m kind of in between both Tyler and Longview and it’s, um, it’s the East Texas brewers Guild. They’re a bunch of good guys out there.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. And how did you discover like, like how did, how did you get about starting to use that strain of yeast? Cause you’ve been using it for awhile.
James Spurgoen: So I got into when I moved from Windsor, Colorado to East Texas and got down here, I didn’t have any temperature control. And so there was no way I was going to brew anything besides like anything with a Belgian yeast strain. So I had heard. On a few podcasts before about . So I started looking into that and I ordered some, and my local Homebrew shop is actually about three or four hours away from me.
So they overnight everything to me, which is really nice for $8. And I got some boss from Omega and I brewed Omega is Voss recipe. They have on their website, tossed it in the garage. And like three days later it was in a K carbonating and ready to serve by the end of the week. And I was just really intrigued, but I don’t like ordering yeast.
I like, I, at this point I have a frozen yeast band and I have a yeast bank full of dry cut bikes. And so to keep that going, I started, um, the drawing process. So when people dry their yeast, I guess from reading Laura’s book, I don’t know if you’ve read Laura’s book, I’ve read through that now, but that’s a really good book with a lot of them source of information, but, um,
Colter Wilson: Yeah, I’ll, I’ll throw a bit of a plug here. We have had Lars on this show before, if you go back to February of this year, all pre COVID, if you can kind of think about that. Uh, and just before he released that book, uh, we had him on the show to talk about it. So, uh, if you’re gonna go back and want to look at, listen to a previous show specifically about Kovacic, uh, go look up that show.
It’s a great one.
James Spurgoen: Yeah, that is a good one. It’s always good to hear Lars on podcasts. He’s really great. He has so much information. I I’m on his website all the time when I’m, when he posts something new
Colter Wilson: Which, which is, which is funny because Lars is not a home brewer. He, I mean, he does do some batches for testing and things, but essentially he’s a beer drinker and not a home brewer and a beer writer. It’s it’s, it’s, it’s kinda cool to talk to him.
James Spurgoen: Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing him on here. And so I was on his blog and I saw him. I believe it was on his blog, not, and his book also has a bit on dry and like, but I saw that he’s Norwegian brewers and Lithuanian brewers, all these farmhouse yeast cultures were being dried and reused and stored for years and years.
So I thought if I can do that myself, I don’t have to spend eight, 10 bucks on a pack of yeast and shipping. Every time I ordered it. So why not save money and keep drawing these? So I went and I watched several YouTube videos. Um, I think there’s a blog that Sui generis blog, maybe if you’ve ever seen that, if I’m saying that right?
Colter Wilson: Yeah, that’s a, that that’s Brian and he’s also been on this show. He does know the whole, the home yeast lab made easy series. Which is great and highly recommended as well.
James Spurgoen: Right. He has a lot of information. So I just started researching a lot and trying to figure out. How I could get this yeast and not have to buy it again and just keep reusing it. And so, um, to start with, you want to check your, you want to check with what yeast you have because certain yeast, if you go on Laura’s blog, he’s got a registry of farmhouse, Kovacs, and farmhouse yeasts, and you can go on there and I’ve got it pulled up here.
I’ve just got it pulled up on number one, Sigma, and you’ll see that, um, For the most part with number one Sigma. And it was harvested at 84 hours after pitching and he, and they harvest it from the bottom slurry. So, um, if you want it to keep it, if you had like it’s number one segment, instead of the isolate boss, you’d want to, I mean either way, but you would bottom harvest.
And what I do is I take a pan, I line it with paper towels, and then I get parchment paper. And I take, um, a sanitize stainless spoon and I carefully, if it’s the bottom slurry, I’ll take the slurry and I’ll just spread it across and like a big circle as much as I can spread out on this pan. And I will set it in the oven and my Oven’s temperature.
Lowest temperature is way too high. You want it around a hundred degrees? I believe a hundred degrees is the higher end. And so your oven is very sanitary because I mean, you’re baking in it at 400 degrees all the time. It’s one of the cleaner parts of your kitchen. And so you take this and you set it in the oven and about 48 hours, it’s dried up into flakes.
I take the parcel of paper. I crushed him. Yeah. And I bag them and, um, Ziploc baggies and labeled them and then store them in the freezer. But strained or not strange culture dependent, or if you have an isolate, um, I like to look at the Lars registry because it’ll tell you, like, I think if I pull up Horne and doll here, number five, um, horn and doll has eight strains.
And then I believe Omega is also all eight strings and they would harvest it from the top at 48 or 40 hours after pitching. And so,
Colter Wilson: So, let let’s talk. Let’s talk about that a bit. So dependent upon strain is dependent on whether it’s going to be top harvested or bottom harvested. Is that correct?
James Spurgoen: That’s correct. Unless it’s an isolate from a lab. So it doesn’t really matter. Cause you’re not going to be changing. You’re not going to have different strains growing faster, slower, and out competing each other.
Colter Wilson: Ah, so like, for example, if you get a, uh, if you’ve got like a natural culture, let’s say you knew somebody in Norway and they sent you some of their yeast. It’s probably a blend of anywhere from five to 10 different types of yeast in one, in one type. Right. It’s not isolated. Correct.
James Spurgoen: right. And it may have bacteria too, so not all
Colter Wilson: yeah, not all of them are a hundred percent yeast.
James Spurgoen: right.
Colter Wilson: Okay. And then, and then if you get one from a lab, you know, it’s, it’s an isolate, right? So for example, they didn’t, they’re not, they’re not just reproducing it. They they’ve even isolated it down to maybe one or two different strains. Then at that point, uh, you know, that it, you, it doesn’t matter if you get it from the top or the bottom, because it’s all one yeast in that.
Right.
James Spurgoen: Right. Right. And I do believe if you talk crop it during high is I believe Croydon. If I’m pronouncing that right during high cruisin, um, it, it will be healthier, but it really. This Quebec is a beast. It’s it’s gonna, it’s gonna grow. It’s gonna eat up all your work, all the sugar in your word. It’s it’s it’s gonna take care of business.
It’s not slow. It’s fast. And, um, what’s really cool though, is talking about horn and doll horn and all from Omega is not an isolate. They have just removed the bacteria. So you’re still getting the blend of, I believe, eight strains. So I think that’s really cool. And I think the boss from Omega is an isolate, but, um, Voss number one, boss, if you got it from the segment in Norway is three strains of yeast.
Colter Wilson: Okay. And so, for example, why don’t you give me a list of some of the examples of East that you have personally? Uh, like Reihart, reharvest it.
James Spurgoen: Okay, let me, I’ve got this list right here. I keep it. So I’m, I may butcher some of these names and I apologize for not knowing how to pronounce these, but, uh, I have number one, Sigmund, which I’ve used about 10 to 15 times from my original source. Plus I’ve used their law. I’ve used the slalom and isolate and the Voss isolate.
And then I’ve used, um, number eight, tore mode, garden, number nine habit or ever garden. Number 10 for M garden. Um, number 16, Simon Natus, which I believe is a Lithuanian farmhouse bike. Um, I’ve got MidBoss number 17, um, number 20 SFA or ESPA Esbe I’m sorry, I’m terrible with these. And then number 41 SCARA um, number 44 Jordahl um, which I believe is not a Kavita.
I believe that’s a Lithuanian. And then I’ve got several mixtures that I’ve gotten from like May 9th. Cool. I’ve got several isolates from Omega. Um, I’ve got, I’ve gotten, I’ve got the East Bay, Lita isolated East Bay has got a lot coming out right now. Also, if you haven’t looked into them, um, I’ve used the book like biology Oslo, which I really love that.
Also. I know everybody knows about that one.
Colter Wilson: Yeah. If you’re looking for a clean beer that, and the scarp man crispy would probably be the road to go right.
James Spurgoen: Right. And I’ve heard, um, Omega has released the Lutra I on, I’m not sure if I’m pronouncing that right. Either. I’ve been trying to get my hands on that it’s supposed to produce clean, um, pseudo loggers around 72 degrees Fahrenheit. And that seems really interesting. And they’ve got. Um, they’ve got a lot, I’ve seen a lot of people brewing with that.
That really love that and are coming up with some really clean beers that I’m going to have to try as soon. I do want to get my hands on the crispy from escarpment labs though. I, I, it’s probably similar to my SCARA, but I would love to try there’s too. Once it’s available down here.
Colter Wilson: Yeah. And, and so example would be you’re, you’re going to different yeast labs and talking to other homebrewers to acquire these. Is that how you’re getting them?
James Spurgoen: Right. And I actually have gotten a lot, um, overseas from, uh, there’s a Facebook group brewing with co brewing with the that you can join. And there are a lot of people just trading and I’ve gotten some from Australia, France. Um, just some random, just random European countries. I can’t even remember. I’ve had several shipments come in that I’ve traded and I’ve traded a lot with people in the U S um, I send, um, people all the time.
Like probably not all the time. I’d say once a month I send out three or four. Um, envelopes full of a few diff I sent five grand packets of these yeasts, and I usually suggest that when you get your yeast, that you take one or two grams and you put it in a about 300 milliliters starter and keep it hot, keep it at 90 to a hundred degrees Fahrenheit.
Um, it’ll take off a lot quicker. You can get some lifetimes with the dry cut bikes. And if you, especially at room temp, like, um, you definitely want to keep it hot, keep it air rated and. Um, I just mix that I don’t even to camp, I just pitched the whole 300 milliliter slurry and, and then I’ll harvest from there and I’ll keep the original, you know, whatever’s leftover is three grams or so.
And the original bag I got it from and freeze it. And that way, if I ever get an infection, I’ve got the original source and I can grow it up from there.
Colter Wilson: Yeah, that’s always a great way to handle all of your yeast lab stuff is, is try to keep the original and grow from there versus trying to use like sex subsequent generations, because then the yeast can change over time. Right?
James Spurgoen: Right. Right. And so I’ve gone through, I got let’s just go with my number one. Sigmund, which is Voss and I’ve used it 10 or 15 times now, but I’ve still got the original source. And I just, well, my first brew, I bought them harvested it, dried it, and I can’t remember, I got several grams worth of yeast. I, there was a ton of East, um, more than I could ever use really at, well, I say that, but, um, I just, I took, I took a few grams and that’s all I do is so, so with that, say 20 grams or so I harvested, I just take one or two grams.
Grow it up. And, um, after about, honestly it usually takes about 16 hours before I pitch. So I plan, I try to plan the day before and then I’m ready to pitch in the afternoon the next day. And I’ll, um, another thing that was really cool is when I got the Omega Voss, I stored a bunch of the slurry in a jar, a Mason jar in the fridge with just a little bit of the beer on top.
And then I took a spoonful of it every time. And I’ve used that jar 10 or 15 times also just taking a spoonful out and that’s over a year old. That’s probably 16 months old now and it still works every time I use it just to spoonful.
Colter Wilson: Yeah, let’s talk a bit about the process of bottom harvesting a and go through from the beginning. Hey, I I’ve. I’ve got, let’s say I got a strain from you. I go and make a batch of beer from it. I get a large yeast cake from it. Why don’t you walk me through that process and through the drying process in itself.
James Spurgoen: So, what I’m going to do is I’ve got this large yeast cake. And I’m going to take out like an oven pan. I’m going to line it with paper towels
Colter Wilson: So that’s like a, is that like a baking sheet for an oven pan?
James Spurgoen: Yes, sir, like a baking sheet. And so I’ll line it with paper towels, and then I’ll get two sheets of parchment paper on top. I like to have that second sheet.
So when I it’s all crumbled up, I’ve got, I’ve got the crumbles of yeast landing on that second parchment sheet. Cause I’m going to take that. I’m going to get a stainless steel spoon and I’m going to sanitize that and I’m going to try to get. A decent amount of cupboard. I’m going to try to cover the entire pan with a couple of millimeters thick Elise, and I’m just going to go to the oven.
Um, and I’m going to set it in the oven with the light on and try to keep it around a hundred degrees Fahrenheit. And, and it’s going to take.
Colter Wilson: you’re using the oven and light to heat the oven versus turning on the oven, right?
James Spurgoen: Right. Cause it will be too high. I think my lowest setting is about one 8,200 degrees Fahrenheit, and that would
Colter Wilson: way overkill.
James Spurgoen: right. And so I’ll leave the light on for about 48 hours usually to get this stride and just which hopefully no one needs to cook anything in those 48 hours. But so your Oven’s tied up for about two days, but.
Um, there are other ways to do this. I know a lot of people use like food dehydrators and other means like that. But for me, the Oven’s really sanitary. I mean, the day before I’ve cooked something and it’s a 400 degree oven, it’s killed everything in there and Kovach is going to outcompete anything. Also, if you do get things in there for the most part, you don’t want to get an infection, but it’s something that you don’t worry.
As much about, I still worry about it and I try to be as sanitary as possible, but at least I know in the oven that it’s killed everything the day before, when I use the oven. And so for 48 hours at a hundred degrees I’ll um, and so when I noticed that it’s finally dry, I’ll pull that out. And I, I still, I like to store in Ziploc baggies.
The, I get the small, like tiny little Ziploc baggies, and I’ll feel I’ll take the parcel of paper and I won’t touch the yeast. And. I’m supposedly from, I believe from what I’ve read that once it’s dried, it’s really hard for it to get infected, but you know, you still want to be careful. You still want to be as sanitary as possible.
Cause sanitation is definitely in my opinion, the most important part of brewing, at least in here at my house. I that’s what I care about the most. I can’t stand when I I’ve only had two or three infections, but nothing’s more heartbreaking than pour in that keg out the drain down the drain. And so
Colter Wilson: I feel, yeah. I’ve had to, I’ve had a dump, a batch. I think, I think that’s just part of homebrewing, but thank God. It’s only been once or twice for me as well.
James Spurgoen: right. So it’s, it’s heartbreaking after, you know, cause those brew days can be long brew days and then the wait times can be long wait times during fermentation and carbonation. And, and so anyway, when I get, when the yeast is dried, I’ll pull out the pan and um, I’ll take the parchment paper and I’ll use it to kind of break up the yeast because.
A lot of times I’ll have it. It’s going to, it’s like a solid piece of East across this pan. And so I want it broken and crumbled up because I want to be able to pull a couple of grams out at a time out of this Ziploc bag. And so I’ll pull it out and I’ll pour it into these Ziploc bags. And then, um, time closed and I’ll write down the date, I’ll write down the name of the strain and then I’ll store them in the freezer until the next time I use them.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. Use it, what does that rehydration process look like? You were going to, let’s say I’ve got a bachelor. I want to make this week. Why don’t you plan out a bit match where you’re going to repurpose this yeast?
James Spurgoen: So from what I’ve heard, the general rule of thumb is people take about five grams. On a normal, I say normal, I say probably 10 70 or less wort, a specific gravity. And they’ll take about five grams and pitch it dry and wait. But what I like to do is I like to, I like to make it last as long as possible.
So I’ll make a 200 to 300 milliliter starter and I’ll just dump the flakes in there and put it on the cert plate, uh, and try to keep it around 9,200 degrees Fahrenheit because. It there’s, it’s, there’s a bit of a lag time with the dry yeast. Sometimes. Not always, but certainly ones have I’ve I’ve noticed like, A 24 hour lag time and unless I’ve kept it hot and then it’s like a few hours, so, and it’s taken off, um, sometimes I’ll even make that starter the morning brew day instead of the night before.
And it’s just when it’s going and I’ll pitch the whole 200 to 300 millimeter started directly into the word after oxygenate. And it’s good to go. Just like that. I haven’t had any problems with any of the Kovacs I’ve gotten overseas or. Um, any of the starters I’ve done except for a couple, you know, sore or slow lifetimes at room temperature before I kept it up at 90 to a hundred Fahrenheit.
So, um, I definitely highly suggest doing the small starter method. A lot of people like to under pitch and, um, I’m not sure under pitching does affect flavored that much. I’ve seen a, there’s a study by escarpment labs. I don’t know if you. I listened to the podcast the other day with Richard Price. I’m not sure if I remember you guys talked about the, they did their study on under pitch versus pitching and there wasn’t a lot of noticeable difference.
Um, I guess, chemically, um, looking at their study, but I like to, I, yes, I did just under pitch yesterday, um, or a couple of days ago. I think you saw that I had brewed, um, an Imperial stout for Christmas and I pitched ’em omegas horn and doll. I pitched one packet. Into an 1143 Oh G work
Colter Wilson: That’s a huge beer.
James Spurgoen: so, um, I under pitched severely and hopefully, um, hopefully it works out.
Um, and it’s not too, I guess, estery, but even if it is, it’s a, it’s a huge beer it’s uh, I tried to measure it out to about a hundred IBU, which, you know, give or take whatever brew father was telling me. But, um, I think hopefully for if, if. If it’s true that yeast pitch doesn’t affect, um, flavor too much, then I don’t think I have to worry too much about esters.
Uh, it’s taken off. It’s been going. It was crazy. I had a huge blow off tube, two gallons of head space, and I was still worried that it was gonna make a mess everywhere.
Colter Wilson: Yeah, that’s the thing about Kovach man, it takes off and it takes off fast and it, and it chews through huge beers really fast. Like normally. Don’t get me wrong when you use normal yeast, you’ll usually get a very aggressive fermentation with a large beer, but they also kind of fizzle out. And one of the things that I found it, at least with is that it has this almost like endurance to large high gravity beers that I’ve not seen with other kind of Tamer yeasts.
Right.
James Spurgoen: Right, right. I gave it a lot of yeast nutrient about three times the recommended amount for a normal ale. Um, from what I’ve read. And I can’t, I can’t say whether I haven’t tested this. But I basically just followed what I’ve read and everybody seems to suggest using two to three times the amount of yeast, nutrient, especially on smaller gravity beers around 10 50.
And I’m not sure why I don’t understand it completely, but, um, sometimes it seems as the comedic has problems with lower gravity beers and needs that East nutrient to finish out.
Colter Wilson: You know, I’ve actually heard the same thing anecdotally, where people have said that lower gravity beers combined. Doesn’t like as much though. The one pseudo lager I made was like a 10 49 beer. We did do a normal starter size. So I did, I did actually a normal pitch or an over pitch in the Kovac world.
And I had zero issues with it. And I didn’t add any use nutrient, but the point is, is that there’s a, if something where I personally think that at this point, that evidence is kind of anecdotal. I’d like to see some people do, maybe some. Maybe do some tests and some side-by-side tastings to see if there really is a difference.
James Spurgoen: Yeah, I’d really love to see that. Cause I use a lot of East nutrients. Beer is, and I’m constantly ordering more yeast nutrient cause I, for the most part do 80% Kovac beers at this point, I’m always pitching, especially the, just the Texas summer here. There’s cause it’s so hot outside and yeah, it’s easier to almost just throw your fermentation vessel in the garage, cover it up.
So it’s not getting the light and just let it rip and the heat.
Colter Wilson: Yep. It’s kind of get, and I’m in Colorado and it’s kind of getting to the end of summer and now nights are getting pretty cool. Whereas I think I would be more likely to just throw out my fermentation chamber and crank up the heat, which is another option as well.
James Spurgoen: Right in the winter, I just put it in the fermentation chamber and I’ve got heat mats or. I before I’ve used, um, a space here and kept the laundry room hot, but, um, other people in the household don’t like that as much to have a hundred degree laundry room. So it, it doesn’t happen too often, so,
Colter Wilson: They’re like you were made to make beer in Texas.
James Spurgoen: ah, right, right. So
Colter Wilson: Yeah.
James Spurgoen: yeah, I really, I,
Colter Wilson: yeah, go ahead.
James Spurgoen: Uh, I’m just saying, I just really love that. I can just. Pitch it, I don’t worry about too much about pitch rates, uh, with my normal Ailes or my loggers. I’m definitely trying to, um, pitch a proper amount of yeast and really take care of the temperature. And now I can just toss this out in the garage and let it go.
And I don’t have to worry as much and I’m not sitting there. Um, I like to do, like, I like to start low on my loggers and then slowly raise the temperature up every few days. And I don’t have to worry about that with these. I just. Hope to keep a steady temperature for the most part, because I have heard and I haven’t experienced it, but I have heard that there are some Kovacs out there that struggle with temperature fluctuation.
If the temperature drops five or 10 degrees, you may stall out or you may not finish out. And I haven’t experienced it yet, but that seems to be pretty common if your temperature fluctuations are and by fluctuations, I mean, dropping low, not raising the temperature.
Colter Wilson: Yeah. So, so you have a hundred degree day, but then it drops to the thirties at night, which you might get into like desert climate, right. That could, that could make it struggle. Where if you have a clue, more resilient, more closely. Like, for example, less of a swing list, it gets to the mid nineties during the day, but then you have a low in the seventies.
It’s probably not going to be as big of an issue. Right.
James Spurgoen: right. I think so. I haven’t experienced it myself. I’ve just seen people talking about how, um, I believe. Like 90 to 70 may cause problems for yeast horn and doll. And I think that’s where I’ve seen most of it on these. I do a lot of like Reddit and Facebook groups and people talking about how their beer stalled out and most people suggest to bring the temperature back up to 90, to a hundred degrees Fahrenheit.
If you have a problem like that and pitch more yeast, nutrient. And feed it a little bit and try to try to shake it up. Um, I don’t, I don’t like that idea cause I’m always worried about oxygenation after, after, um, I used pure oxygen before pitching the East. I never want to touch oxygen again. I try not to.
So that makes me a little worrisome, especially if I’m using like a bucket, like a lot of people are, or, um, these like. Plastic carboys I don’t want to shake it up too much, but they say to kind of try to stir it up and Rouse the yeast is a good idea. If you have a stall like that.
Colter Wilson: Yeah. And I think that’s pretty standard yeast recovery methods when you’re talking about even other yeast,
James Spurgoen: Right. Right. I think so. For the most part, I haven’t ever had a stall, so I, I can’t attest to that, but.
Colter Wilson: Yeah, I I’ve had very few stalls and usually it’s on, on li I mean, I had one time where I had a stalled yeast and I was on the seventh generation of that I had been re-pitching and reusing and re-pitching and reusing. And so it just needed to die. And it did. Uh, so quick question for you. I, what, what styles of beers are you making with these different strains of bikes?
James Spurgoen: Um, for the most part, I I’ve been doing some pseudo loggers. Um, I’ve been doing some pale ELLs and, um, I like to do, um, new England IPS. Um, I’ve actually done us a sour to now with them. Um, pretty much no hop it. And I got ’em. If you’ve seen maniacal sometimes releases on milk, the font quick souring blend, it’s got three or four different with all their bacteria and two or three lactobacillus strains added to it.
And I pitched that into a lo uh, they, they suggest five IB user less, and I got, and it was really awesome. It was a hibiscus sour. It, it just came out. It tasted like a weird, like straw, not a weird, I said, I hate to say weird, but like a strawberry lemonade. And it was really great cause there’s a lot of lactose in some of the original cultures.
And so with low hot beers you’re you can get a really nice sour. No, it’s not a kettle sour, but it’s, I try to keep those fermentation vessels separate, but I’ve been making some cool sours out of it. Um, I have a sour that’s aging right now that I pitched the Jordahl, which I believe is a Lithuanian. I think it’s number 44 Lithuanian farmhouse culture.
And it’s got a, from what I remember a couple strains of bacteria in it, and I pitched that as a primary and then pitched in several strains of bread. And so PDO, and I’ve been letting that age since January. I’m hoping that soon, next January or so, I’m going to be able to open that up and try that and see how that came out.
But I’ve been trying to do everything with it. I’ve got that. Um, and Imperial stout fermenting right now with the horn and doll from Omega and I, I was gonna dry that, but I got lazy and I, I decided I won’t worry about it. I’ll just get some more it’s I’m worried that pitching into an 1143, my. Make the yeast weak.
I’m not sure if that’s true, but it kinda makes me nervous. Cause I haven’t tried anything that big, it’s my biggest beer by far. And I thought I’ll just get another pack of horn at all. If I want to use it again, it wouldn’t be too much to get one more. I do like to save money, but I’ll get one more pack of the horn and doll.
I okay, go ahead.
Colter Wilson: And, and where, you know, we did talk a bit about where you’re getting these yeasts from, and you talked about some Facebook groups. What, what are, where are you like, for example, if you’re doing yeast trades, what was that Facebook group called and where would I find it?
James Spurgoen: It’s brewing with . Um, if you just search it on Facebook, it should be one of the top hits. There’s another Kovach page, but I don’t know how to pronounce it because I pull it up right now. And, um, and I started
Colter Wilson: I’ll, and just as an FYI, I’ll link to these in the show notes. Uh, you’ll send I’ll have you send them over to me and we’ll just do direct links. So if you have any questions, go on the show notes, you’re listening to this on your podcast player, and we’ll have some links to these Facebook groups so that you can let’s make the community bigger.
Let’s get some more use out there, right?
James Spurgoen: Right. Right. And the other page is bike and then it’s a dash. And then, and the next two words are in a different language. And I believe they also mean . But, um, that one is where I started first that one’s specifically more for trading and buying Kovacs. And now the brewing with is for both, but there’s a lot more information and people posting recipes and experience.
And so you can try to find whatever you’re using and see how others have used it and how it attenuated, what temperature they brewed with and get some ideas of what to expect when it comes to yours, to you pitching it into your work.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. And are there other resources for purchasing device that you would recommend?
James Spurgoen: Um, I, I mean, I specifically, I really trust using all the, the, you know, the major yeast companies that are out there. There, there’s always some, and there’s always. New ones coming out on these. And a lot of them, I really like that they’re taking out the bacteria and some of these, so people that are worried about that and don’t want to use a separate vessel and don’t want a soured beer.
They can get those without using these, you know, when you get these from overseas using these Facebook groups, you always have, you kind of have to worry about, I mean, what if the guy that sent it to you? Didn’t, you know, he didn’t take care of it well enough and has an infection. So you’re going to get an infected culture.
So you can, so I like the fact that I can get a clean boss from Omega or or, um, I think Imperial has, is it low key? Maybe Imperial’s Loki might be boss. I think I’ve heard. And so I love the fact that you can get, um, some clean, isolated, um, cultures or, um, I say cultures, isolated strains, or cultures of these strains and know that they’re going to be clean, but I haven’t had any infected, um, cultures come in from these groups.
And there’s a, there’s several people that are known on these groups to be sending these out. I’ve also heard of people going to Easter bunny and I haven’t checked them out myself, but I’ve heard good things about Easter bunny having a bunch of, um, Kovacs and Lithuanian farmhouse, um, cultures. On, I don’t know if it’s a website or an eBay seller, but if you just go on there and you search on one of these Facebook groups for the Easter bunny, or just even post on there that you’re looking for something specific, somebody’s gonna link you to somebody that will take care of that.
And it’ll be PayPal if you to go through one of these guys, but it’s taken like two weeks or so sometimes for it to come in, but everything’s been fine going in, you know, being in the. In a mail truck for two weeks coming across the sea. So I haven’t had any problems. So I have had really good experience.
Not everyone has good experience, but, um, I think for the most part it’s been really great. Um, just need to check out these Facebook groups to find. These people, and it’s just really easy, a quick search on the Facebook groups. I searched around for a while. Like on Reddit, I was posting asking if anybody had sources for getting, um, the original cultures, because I got really interested in the original cultures reading, um, Laura’s blog and seeing some of these weird recipes.
And I, it made me really want to try something non isolated. And I think for the most part, um, I’ve done my house IPA. As a new England IPA with Voss or numb, or which is number one segment, and I’ve done it with both the culture and isolates. And I haven’t done a side by side, but I haven’t been able to taste the difference.
And so I think it’s most of the, I’d say all of these companies are very trustworthy and you’re going to get something you probably couldn’t distinguish between the original culture. If you really, you have side-by-side and a blind test. I don’t think you could just to distinguish something fermented split, split it from it, with the number one Sigma and one with the Omega boss.
I think you distinguish it or you’d have to have a really good palette to taste the difference in that. I think. And that’s why I think that it is an isolate from Omega cause I’m Omega does horn and doll as the age strains, but it does Vos as the number, as one strain and number one, Sigma and Voss is three strains of yeast.
So I think for the most part, um, you could go through it, your local Homebrew shop or Omega yeast Bay, white labs. I’m not sure. I don’t think why East has any Kovak yet. I’m not sure if they do. I haven’t heard of why East having Quebec. But, um, it is a really cool way to get things that aren’t out yet is by going through these Facebook groups, because not, I mean, Omega has, I think five of Kovacs now, if I recall correctly and, um, if you go through this list, there’s like a hundred different yeah.
That have been like all night Laura’s blog, bike registry, or I guess it’s farmhouse East registry. If you just look at that, it goes from number one to number 64. That have been documented in the registry.
Colter Wilson: Which is crazy. He continually is finding new yeast. That’s kind of crazy,
James Spurgoen: Right, right. It’s insane. It’s I, you wouldn’t think that this is just something in the last three, four or five years is blown up so much
Colter Wilson: I think it’s, to be honest, I’ve done a lot of podcasts on it because I think it’s such a cool. New thing in homebrewing. I think that that’s, I, this is what excites me about home brewing is all the new trends and things that come out that are really changing the way people brew beer. And I think that like the hazy IPA really changed the IPA and I watched all that happen.
It’s going to be really cool to see how Kovacic is going to change brewing in general. We’re going to look back at this time in five years and be like, Whoa, I’m telling you that’s what’s going to happen.
James Spurgoen: Yeah, I definitely believe it. It’s it’s just crazy. I mean, I still see people that haven’t tried it or haven’t heard of it and I don’t know how they haven’t heard of it at this point. It seems it’s, it’s crazy.
Colter Wilson: It is, it is, but, you know, there was a time when saisons were the new cool thing too. Right. So
James Spurgoen: Right, right. Yeah. I don’t think, Oh, go ahead.
Colter Wilson: Yeah, I was just going to say, James, thank you so much for coming on the show. I feel like this was a very informative conversation considering, uh, you, you’ve done such a really cool job of learning how to repurpose these types of yeast and kind of create a cool library of them.
Uh, if we were to want to connect with you, is there a place where we could maybe follow your brewing adventures?
James Spurgoen: I have an Instagram page. It’s just Lake fork brewing. And I am, I try to post on there often, at least on the stories. So you can see that I’m brewing every week, but, um, that, and I have a little blog that I’ve been working on, but it’s pretty weak at this point. I’m just having fun with it. I just really love anything beer.
So if you ever look in for yeast or want to try something out, um, I’m always welcomed. You can send me a message on my Instagram page and I’ll happily send you five grams of something to try out.
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. So you might get a lot of requests cause you’re now on a podcast talking about it.
James Spurgoen: Well, we’ll see, I’ve got, I’ve got plenty. So,
Colter Wilson: That’s awesome. Well, James, thank you so much for coming on the show and, and we’ll have
James Spurgoen: Yeah. Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun
Colter Wilson: I’d like to thank James for taking the time to come on this week show. I think we had a great conversation. And I learned a lot about some new resources when it comes to all things can bike. And speaking of those resources, if you look in the show notes or you head over to home brewing diy.beer and click on the post for this.
Episode, I will put in listed there links to those Facebook groups and other resources on finding different types of COVID. I think this is a great place to learn some new things. Also, you can find us on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, all one word homebrewing, DIY.
Also, if you head over to the website, homebrewing, DIY dot ear, click on the feedback tab and fill out the form. If you fill out our form and get us some information, Hey, you never know. We might read it on the air. Well, that’s it for this week. And we’ll talk to you next week. On home brewing diy
